opening a can of worms...

[kuangning]

.. you all know by now that I do not advocate spanking. My three get along just fine without it when we live on our own. But I know there are those of you who do... so, a few questions.

I know that there are a couple of questions that could have been phrased differently, now that I look at it, but. Answer with an average age range for your children if they're close in ages: if there's a span of five years or more, answer for one of them.

[Poll #62482]

Comments

[kaolinfire.livejournal.com]

I really don't understand this spanking thing. I mean, I do, in that I understand where it comes from to some extent. But what lesson are you teaching? You're teaching that because you're bigger and stronger, what you want it "right". And that's the whole of the law.

That's my opinion, at least: one whippersnapper who was raised without physical violence directed towards me by family members.

[zorbathut.livejournal.com]

plus, punishment like that never made me want to obey. Just figure out an even better way to disobey :P

[rustedlemon.livejournal.com]

spanking worked for me.
I was so very careful to keep myself from getting in trouble.. but that also meant that I spent a lot of time trying to hide things when I did do something wrong.

When my father took off his belt, it was serious business.
You wouldn't be able to sit for days and you would definitely think twice about doing something wrong. Of course the spankings stopped after the divorce and my father tried to play mr nice guy and eventually I got a very bratty and spoiled sister out of that mess.
pffft.
spanking is good punishment in certain situations for certain children. Some children are sensitive enough to feel punished from a scolding though. It all depends.

[violetvixen.livejournal.com]

well the issue of spanking is very grey, sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't... where do you draw the line between dicipline and abuse? I was spanked by my father with a belt... I think of it as abuse. Where as you phrase it as 'serious business' ~ same act.... what was different? I duno.

Re:

[rustedlemon.livejournal.com]

Abuse of a child would be a lot more severe than breaking out a belt to put a rash on their bottom. If spanking is the way to reinforce dicipline that works best on your child, why not use it?
I don't think I would ever spank a child that is not mine though. That's the responsibility of the parent.

But often I have had to baby sit children who are neither praised nor reprimanded by their parents in any fashion. One child I sent to his room for misbehavior and he kicked a hole in the wall in his bedroom. The parents showed an indifference about it and when they got home, he was allowed to go straight to his video games. No reinforcement of any type of punishment. *sighs* I wonder how he's going to turn out...

I believe that the difference between discipline and abuse is that abuse comes out of a lack of control and anger. Abuse is a bully beating on someone who will take it. Discipline is measured out to teach values and lessons from the experience; it's very controlled. Very simply, abuse is the lack of self-control and purpose.

And I know the difference because I have had spankings and have been the victim of abuse. There is no purpose behind abuse but to hurt. And although spankings hurt(not as much abeing abused) you know why you're being punished.

[kaolinfire.livejournal.com]

I'm more of the mind that if you raise a child to need spanking, they're going to need spanking. If you raise them to not need physical abuse to pay attention, then they won't need it... of course, I haven't raised any myself yet.

[ly2me.livejournal.com]

Not to be offensive, but that's complete hogwash. :) For the simple reason a child has much more environmental input than just from the parent.

I certainly know -I- did things my parents would never have dreamed of, and I didn't do them out of any stimuli provided by my parents.

[kaolinfire.livejournal.com]

Actually, I did live (and it wasn't so difficult) a rather sheltered life, in that I was raised only by my parents. I didn't go to friends' houses, for the most part -- they came over to mine; at least until I was rather formed as an individual. And I seriously doubt there was much I could do that my parents would never have dreamed of; I'm sure there's a fair amount that they have done that *I* would never have dreamed of. Admittedly, I went to a public school as well, and there's much brainwashing and whatnot going on there, but with the proper spin on things from home, one survives... :)

so go hogwash yourself. ;)

[ly2me.livejournal.com]

So you had input from school and friends, probably TV to some extent, and I'm sure there were others. And somehow you were lucky enough to be one of those who listened carefully to what your parents advised and didn't get into mischief. Not all children put up with being sheltered. I didn't. Momma tried.

My point is that to say that all a parent has to do is do everything right and no kid will 'get to the point of needing a spanking' is just wrong. See my post below... all kids are different. That's like saying that all the inmates must have had bad parents. It just doesn't work that way. :)

[kaolinfire.livejournal.com]

read your post below.

umm.

I think we'll just need to agree to disagree here. You can do as you will with your own, and maybe I'll just get lucky with mine.

Not all parents are alike, not all children are alike, but I believe that it is possible get a person to start thinking about what they're doing and why they're doing it... and why you'd rather they didn't, and how that fits in the whole scheme of life: perspective. I'll admit that it could just be a pipe dream, but it's my pipe dream and I'm sticking to it. :)

I had a pretty easy life.

[mopalia.livejournal.com]

Good grief, what are you talking about? You never got spanked!

[zorbathut.livejournal.com]

A few times, actually. Eventually you told me that you always felt bad about it - it wasn't very often, just when you were really angry with me.

Like, three times at most, I think.

[violetvixen.livejournal.com]

It is nice to have confirmation from someone who did not suffer physical abuse by family feels the same way I do.

[violetvixen.livejournal.com]

I duno, I do not want to have to ever get to the point that I have to spank my child... that indicates that I've already lost control, that I'm employing a fear tactic... not an educational tactic... which is what I'd prefer to use. I want solid rules, one thing that drove me batty, well other than the pure physical abuse of my childhood was that the rules always changed... I lost no matter what. I even see some folks do that now, play slap tickle with the kid, then get indignent and sometimes violent when the kid manages to land a good blow, and all of the sudden the game is over... why not point out that not to hit that area with that much force... educate instead of 'play play play FUCK THAT HURT GO AWAY' - which has got to be confusing... but here I go opening myself up a nice can of worms... anyone like any fried?

[minn.livejournal.com]

Answer to question #6:

A child below 4 years is a toddler; spanking needn't be necessary to administer discipline. A stern voice, and some small punishment like sending to their room should be enough to (temporarily) mortify them into not repeating their mistake/mischief.

Answer to question #8:

From 8 years onwards, a slight rebelliousness starts setting in. That's why I feel spanking a child, 8 years or above, will do no good. It might make the child defensive.

---

Although I am yet a parent, I say this from experience with my nieces/nephews, and also from how my parents treated me when I was a child. :)

[cynicaloptimist.livejournal.com]

Corporal punishment is a complex issue, and as children are complex beings the answer is different depending on their personality. Some children respond to other types of discipline, some even prefer a physical punishment. An example is my sister and myself. For her, being grounded or sent to her room was the ultimate punishment, so she got grounded a lot and rarely hit.

For me, that didn't work. I was quite happy in my room or sat in a corner with nothing to do. Taking things away or restricting privileges turned into a battle of wills - I would prove that I could go without and win the victory that way. Lecturing and reasoning became the same - I knew damn well that I was doing wrong most of the time and being stubborn I could face down even an all night lecture. Extra chores were useless, as I was often being punished for not doing my chores in the first place... However, I did respect a slap. Consequently, I was far more often struck than she was. I actually preferred the physical punishment to longer-term ones anyway. It was over and done with quickly. And I can't remember thinking that my parents didn't love me because of it.

It should never be a first resort, or administered lightly and physical punishment is dangerous when you're angry as there is the temptation to go over the top. However, administered responsibly and carefully, I believe it is an appropriate punishment for transgressions. I'd try to follow my parents pattern of a warning of what the consequences wil be and then punishment for continued misbehaviour.

I think that for young children that there's an added benefit. Small children don't really have a concept of danger and often don't understand 'Don't do that - it's dangerous!' because they don't appreciate danger until they've experienced a bad situation. However, as my parents put it - 'Don't run into the road, because it makes your legs hurt!' is quickly grasped. It's also useful when teaching a child that 'Stop!' means 'Stop what you're doing NOW or your legs will hurt' is useful both when a child is behaving badly, or about to stick a screwdriver in an electrical socket.

There is a difference between administering physical punishment and abuse. I'd never use an implement on a child for example, as it's too easy to cause real damage. I don't consider myself to have been abused, but then my parents were always careful about when they used it.

[ly2me.livejournal.com]

When spanking becomes violent, then it's not spanking, it's beating. There is a difference.

I didn't take the poll, because I didn't feel comfortable with any of the answers beyond the first two. I don't 'advocate spanking', but I also don't advocate letting children run completely amok because parents have tried everything else and simply refuse to apply a little old-fashioned discipline. Well.. that's really not a good metaphor, since by 'old fashioned' I do not mean razor straps and birch strips. When I say 'spanking' I mean applying the hand in a mannor which makes a loud enough noise to get their attention without causing any physical damage... and only as a last resort.

Some children do not need anything but a sound talking-to. Others, you may as well talk to a wall. Children are as individual as adults, and respond uniquely. And eventually, the will test their limits. How far they take that testing depends, again, on the child.

Note: I do NOT believe the schools should be allowed to lay a hand on a child.

[defaultcrush.livejournal.com]

I found this entry from a friends list and since I didn't see someone who also had the same experience as me I thought I'd share.

In my house, spanking was a last resort. I think I was spanked maybe 3 or 4 times my whole life, and this was after repeated times of my parents telling me not to do things. If it got to the 5th time my parents told me not to do something (and it was usually things that were for my own good, not little things like "eat your vegetables" or whatever) and I was still disobeying, my dad would give me one swat with a bare hand after he had calmed down. He didn't believe in using belts or paddles or anything else like that, and it was only one "spank". I think I turned out okay, and now I can see that this method of discipline was reserved for when all other means of discipline (time outs, no allowance, etc.) didn't work for me. I definately think there are some parents who take it to a place that isn't really appropriate, but that wasn't my experience.

[lothie.livejournal.com]

I'm not into spanking as your typical punishment. For me, it's a signal to the child: "You did something really bad and you don't want to do it again!" It's usually one swat, hard enough to feel it, across the butt. When the child is older, say six or so, it might be one (not hard) slap across the face. That's it. And it happens pretty darned rarely.

To me, if I have to slap a child, something is wrong, and that something could be my own fault, as much as the child's. I should, perhaps, have been watching him more closely. I should have been listening to what amounted to her cry for help, something like that. So while yes, the child needs to receive the signal "this behavior is unacceptable and you WILL NOT do it again", he or she also doesn't need to have my error reinforced with pain. That's why ONE slap, and not very hard either.

Anyway, that's my take.

[dormouse-in-tea.livejournal.com]

I'll admit that I was a boring and unimaginative child, who never got into trouble, but I was only spanked once and I fully support my mother for doing it.

I was three years old, ran out in front of traffic, and almost got creamed by a truck.

Old enough to know better, /did/ know better, scared my mother to death...I got a right proper beating on my bottom. And I never did it again.