(no subject)
Dec. 1st, 2001 10:45 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
kuangningI've been trying to figure out how to say something for a week now. And not having much luck even figuring out to whom I could say it, although I feel the need to speak it, to put it into words.
I've asked a few of my friends to tell me what they believe. And yes, I do mean religion. I'm still curious to know what you on my friends list believe in. What do you hold as bedrock truth? What carries you through?
You who know me may or may not know; I don't discuss religion often. But my family started out Catholic, and then my father started a search for the One Truth that led us through every flavour of Protestantism that wasn't immediately recognizable as fraud, deception, or outright heresy. And a couple that were, such as the one which claimed that the Return would take place in September 1994.
Each new flavour was adopted fervently, and never mind the fact that the new one might blatantly contradict something that was held as gospel truth in the last one. Predestination? Ecstatic speech, or "speaking in tongues"? Faith healing? Those major conflicts in doctrine never seemed apparent to my dad. And we, being children, had no choice in the religious diet we were fed. The result was predictable. Once I left home, I did not voluntarily set foot inside any church. In fact, I turned to Wicca and paganism, because the approachable deities of those faiths appealed more than the autocratic, jealous, vengeful God I had been taught to worship.
I look back over some of my posts, now, and I have to wonder. Following 9-11, in the midst of the chaos, there was stillness. There was peace. Hurt, too, yes, but knowledge that the hurt was transient, a feeling of being connected. And, more than connected, sustained.
In the days leading up to my move, I was more and more convinced that I was on the right path. That there was something here for me, that things were going to change, and for the better. And even when I got here, and things bottomed out, at the time when it was worst, I wrote in a log which isn't going to be open to the public:
"People keep telling me, this last week or so, how "beautiful I am" and -- oddly -- "how bright my aura is." What's more odd is that I believe them; I know something has changed in me, and I know why, if not how. Despite setbacks, despite frustrations and disappointments, I have been happier lately than ever before with three exceptions. Someone called me "serene" -- and I laughed, but I know what he meant. I'm not calm. But I am, somehow, at peace. I know that things will work out, and I may be tired, worried, and hurting, but still that knowledge is there. And the only times I remember feeling this upswelling of assurance and peace, is/were with my pregnancies. [Note: I didn't mean that I thought I was pregnant; that's not possible, and I didn't mean to convey that. On rereading this line, though, I thought I'd better clarify this.] It's a knowing, a gut feeling of health and wholeness and good things happening."
That was before I had any inkling of what would come next. Before I had any reason for feeling that way. And all of my time here has been a growing time, in more ways than the obvious. It feels right.
This week, I bought a Bible. I haven't owned one since I was eighteen, nor truly read one since I was fourteen. That feels right, too.
I am never going to be a fundie. My current roomate talks constantly about Jesus and how He gives her everything she wants, and how hard she works for Him. According to her, she's a travelling evangelist, and set on the task to win souls. She "adorns herself for Him," because He is her husband, she says, and she uses the word "I" in everyday conversation more often than anyone else I've ever known. She, frankly, makes me cringe, and if that's what Christianity is, then I don't ever want to be a Christian.
But for the one shining example of what not to do, I've seen more than a dozen people, now, who seem to have more peace than anyone I've known before. Despite circumstances, despite death and robberies and beatings, they manage to maintain a serenity, in the real sense of the word, that amazes me. And they all feel, they say, guided. I know, because I've asked them all. They all feel as if this is where they need to be, and what they need to be doing. The same way I feel. And after having eleven strangers approach me on the street, within the last two weeks, and tell me that they felt led to say to me that I'm to hang on because God has a plan for me, I'm wondering what I've gotten myself into, but still I feel so strongly that I need to stay, that I'm not afraid, and running's not an option.
I don't want to be different. I don't want to be, ever, in any religious sense of the word, chosen. My roomate chases the religious spotlight, and I sit back and watch her because when you're chosen, you have to fulfill expectations. I want to be normal. I don't want a calling beyond my kids and my home, I think evangelists are crazy and half of them are frauds. I am not ever going to be the one lapsing into ecstatic speech or a missionary to another country. I take medicines, because faith is fine, but apparently mine is smaller than that grain of mustard seed, because faith hasn't healed me of anything the doctor didn't take a good swing at first with antibiotics or corrective lenses.
But still I feel... guided. It hasn't gone away; it hasn't wavered. If anything, it's gotten stronger. The thought has crossed my mind often that this might just be me latching on to anything that can bring comfort... but it did start before the worst of this. I'm confused. But I can't say that, whatever this is, I dislike it or want it gone. I talked about bedrock beliefs... I'm not sure what mine are anymore.
I've asked a few of my friends to tell me what they believe. And yes, I do mean religion. I'm still curious to know what you on my friends list believe in. What do you hold as bedrock truth? What carries you through?
You who know me may or may not know; I don't discuss religion often. But my family started out Catholic, and then my father started a search for the One Truth that led us through every flavour of Protestantism that wasn't immediately recognizable as fraud, deception, or outright heresy. And a couple that were, such as the one which claimed that the Return would take place in September 1994.
Each new flavour was adopted fervently, and never mind the fact that the new one might blatantly contradict something that was held as gospel truth in the last one. Predestination? Ecstatic speech, or "speaking in tongues"? Faith healing? Those major conflicts in doctrine never seemed apparent to my dad. And we, being children, had no choice in the religious diet we were fed. The result was predictable. Once I left home, I did not voluntarily set foot inside any church. In fact, I turned to Wicca and paganism, because the approachable deities of those faiths appealed more than the autocratic, jealous, vengeful God I had been taught to worship.
I look back over some of my posts, now, and I have to wonder. Following 9-11, in the midst of the chaos, there was stillness. There was peace. Hurt, too, yes, but knowledge that the hurt was transient, a feeling of being connected. And, more than connected, sustained.
In the days leading up to my move, I was more and more convinced that I was on the right path. That there was something here for me, that things were going to change, and for the better. And even when I got here, and things bottomed out, at the time when it was worst, I wrote in a log which isn't going to be open to the public:
"People keep telling me, this last week or so, how "beautiful I am" and -- oddly -- "how bright my aura is." What's more odd is that I believe them; I know something has changed in me, and I know why, if not how. Despite setbacks, despite frustrations and disappointments, I have been happier lately than ever before with three exceptions. Someone called me "serene" -- and I laughed, but I know what he meant. I'm not calm. But I am, somehow, at peace. I know that things will work out, and I may be tired, worried, and hurting, but still that knowledge is there. And the only times I remember feeling this upswelling of assurance and peace, is/were with my pregnancies. [Note: I didn't mean that I thought I was pregnant; that's not possible, and I didn't mean to convey that. On rereading this line, though, I thought I'd better clarify this.] It's a knowing, a gut feeling of health and wholeness and good things happening."
That was before I had any inkling of what would come next. Before I had any reason for feeling that way. And all of my time here has been a growing time, in more ways than the obvious. It feels right.
This week, I bought a Bible. I haven't owned one since I was eighteen, nor truly read one since I was fourteen. That feels right, too.
I am never going to be a fundie. My current roomate talks constantly about Jesus and how He gives her everything she wants, and how hard she works for Him. According to her, she's a travelling evangelist, and set on the task to win souls. She "adorns herself for Him," because He is her husband, she says, and she uses the word "I" in everyday conversation more often than anyone else I've ever known. She, frankly, makes me cringe, and if that's what Christianity is, then I don't ever want to be a Christian.
But for the one shining example of what not to do, I've seen more than a dozen people, now, who seem to have more peace than anyone I've known before. Despite circumstances, despite death and robberies and beatings, they manage to maintain a serenity, in the real sense of the word, that amazes me. And they all feel, they say, guided. I know, because I've asked them all. They all feel as if this is where they need to be, and what they need to be doing. The same way I feel. And after having eleven strangers approach me on the street, within the last two weeks, and tell me that they felt led to say to me that I'm to hang on because God has a plan for me, I'm wondering what I've gotten myself into, but still I feel so strongly that I need to stay, that I'm not afraid, and running's not an option.
I don't want to be different. I don't want to be, ever, in any religious sense of the word, chosen. My roomate chases the religious spotlight, and I sit back and watch her because when you're chosen, you have to fulfill expectations. I want to be normal. I don't want a calling beyond my kids and my home, I think evangelists are crazy and half of them are frauds. I am not ever going to be the one lapsing into ecstatic speech or a missionary to another country. I take medicines, because faith is fine, but apparently mine is smaller than that grain of mustard seed, because faith hasn't healed me of anything the doctor didn't take a good swing at first with antibiotics or corrective lenses.
But still I feel... guided. It hasn't gone away; it hasn't wavered. If anything, it's gotten stronger. The thought has crossed my mind often that this might just be me latching on to anything that can bring comfort... but it did start before the worst of this. I'm confused. But I can't say that, whatever this is, I dislike it or want it gone. I talked about bedrock beliefs... I'm not sure what mine are anymore.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2001-12-01 09:51 am (UTC)In the meantime, be assured that your relationship with whatever deistic principle you want is governed by what you believe. I'll explain more later.
(hugs)
no subject
Date: 2001-12-01 11:20 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2001-12-01 11:47 am (UTC)Thank you. =)
no subject
Date: 2001-12-01 11:57 am (UTC)I would say that I have relatively few bedrock beliefs, and they tend to be in my understanding of my own limited abilities.
I like to play with the concepts of deism, magic, and the like (in my head, in stories, and in practice). Nothing has "convinced" me in any direction, and I do my best to wander through as the learning fool. I am hesitant to make the next step unless I'm sure I can make the cycle back to fool and gain from it (in a reasonable amount of time).
no subject
Date: 2001-12-03 09:50 pm (UTC)I think most people don't know the difference between agnosticism and atheism. The latter is a belief that there is no God, no deity. Agnostics, on the other hand, believe that the only certainty is uncertainty - that there is no way of proving the existence or lack of existence of God.
no subject
Date: 2001-12-04 12:26 am (UTC)They raised me agnostic -- they did not want to impose on my beliefs.
I would agree that most people do not know the difference between agnostic and atheistic. Especially in the biblebelt south, where telling people you're atheistic tends to get you lynched as a devil worshipper (which they consider the same thing as a satanist).
Lovely stuff. :)
Re:
Date: 2001-12-04 08:55 am (UTC)As an agnostic, I think that is a belief in itself. A belief that there can be no proof of the existence of a Supreme Being. My daughter (age 6) believes in God, just as I did at her age - the typical old man up in the clouds somewhere who made everything and knows all. Our culture clearly teaches that, because I know neither of her parents taught it to her. At the same time, she knows that I don't share her belief, and that that's ok! She knows at an early age that there are a lot of opinions about God and religion out there, and that some people will get really mad at her or me or both of us for believing or not believing as we do.
no subject
Date: 2001-12-01 12:16 pm (UTC)there's a difference.
you can be religious and not have a speck of spirituality in you, you can be spiritual and not have a speck of religion in you. religion is a way towards spirituality, at least, that's what it's *supposed* to be. religion is meant to be a way of taking care of your spirit, your soul, a guide to that "inner peace" you're talking about. but these days, it's very rare to find a person who still remembers this. most religious leaders don't even remember.
prayer is "talking to god" the problem is, that's all people do any more. talk, and talk... meditation is more often than not, denounced as "witchcraft" and a sin or is treated as a touchy subject and gets danced around, in spite of the fact that Christ went out into the desert for days to meditate. meditation is "listening to god(or listening to *.*)", which you'll notice, doesn't get done much at all any more. christians aren't the only ones who need to shut up and listen, either.
something to ponder; is it more important for you to have a name, a word to define what you are, religiously speaking, i.e., catholic, protestant, baptist, wiccan... or can you walk the path and never know it's name? does it matter what it's called?
- the one and only, Rev. Ari, soon to be Dr.
no subject
Date: 2001-12-01 02:24 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2001-12-01 04:40 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2001-12-01 05:46 pm (UTC)I believe that there is no one truth.
just to share.
Date: 2001-12-01 09:25 pm (UTC)I believe in a Son of God.
I believe in Eternal Life.
I like the way the Presbyterian church governs itself, therefore that is what I attend.
I don't generally tell people this either, for one, it gets a bad rap with the differently guided, and for two, I really don't like pushing beliefs, but you asked, and I do like to share.
no subject
Date: 2001-12-02 02:54 am (UTC)I am theoretically a confirmed member of the Presbyterian Church U.S.A., but my personal beliefs differ a fair ammount from church doctrine. Honestly, when I go to church it's for the music and the community. I started going as a child because of the music (and ended up bringing my father and later my little brother. My father has now been on far too many committees and was previously president of the Board of Deacons.)
I suppose part of my problem is that I do see the hypocrises in most versions of Christianity. I see how they pick and choose which sections of the bible they want to count. I see how they tack things on that aren't there.
And now I really really need to go find one of my old tapes. It was Christian folk music and can not remember the name of the singer/songwriter. But I loved most of the tape and one of the songs definitely applies. It was called 'You're a Hard Man to Live With, Mr. Christian' and was basically all about people who claim to be Christians, but who don't really act like it much. Some of the lyrics are: 'So high on the word of Love you come across like you're above the people that you are talking to. Somehow, the love doesn't quite get through.' Anyway, I'm not entirely sure what my point was and it's very late here. But... don't be afraid to find your own beliefs. And don't be afraid to find solace in whatever form you find it. Also something I've noticed is that... even among congregations that are theoretically the same faith things can differ. So look around and if you can't find anything that quite suits, well... see if you can find other like minded people and create something informal. Ok. I'm gonna stop babbling now.
me...
Date: 2001-12-02 03:20 am (UTC)At one point, when you had to list your religion down on things, my Mother always put C of E down, but she never went to church as an adult, and I never went to church as a child or adult, the one time I went to a church seeking some help, counselling and advice, I was told that *I* was a bad person for letting this thing happen to me, and that it was no more than I deserved for not being a christian.
As you can imagine that put me of christianity and church for good, for several years I identified as a Wiccan, but realised that it wasn't for me, as to what I believe in, I believe in me, i put my faith and trust in me.
No one else
Re: me...
Date: 2001-12-03 12:25 pm (UTC)Everything
Date: 2001-12-02 04:30 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2001-12-02 10:47 pm (UTC)damn. I don't want to write all that again...
no subject
Date: 2001-12-03 11:07 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2001-12-03 12:47 pm (UTC)Thanks for making me think.
no subject
Date: 2001-12-03 09:41 pm (UTC)I am guided by the love of my daughter, family, and friends. I'm guided by compassion, honesty, and simplicity. I'm not guided by God, gods, or goddesses. There is no way of knowing whether or not a Supreme Being exists, and I have no problem with the resulting uncertainty. I do have serious problems with certainty, with those of faith who know that their belief is The Belief. How can this be so, when there exists a multitude of a wide variety of beliefs? There is great arrogance in firmly held religious beliefs, and I dislike arrogance.
And that's about as brief as I can express it.