*grumblemuttergrowl*

[kuangning]

Just when I begin to believe in the benefits of the medical system...

Doctor: well, you have the 'flu, all right. The good news is, you're almost over it. I'm gonna put you on some antibiotics...

Aio: erm. isn't the 'flu a viral infection?

Doctor: yes, that's exactly right.

Aio: then what good is an antibiotic going to do?

Doctor: truthfully? not much. but it can't hurt, can it?

< conversation mercifully snipped. >

There's a difference between a placebo, which is an intrinsically harmless substance given to bolster the patient's faith in the doctor and the healing process, and a medicine administered for the sake of administering it. If you can't help me, dammit, say you can't help me, and leave it at that. And whatever happened to treating the thing empirically? I was doing that much on my own. I understand that sometimes people demand antibiotics because they want to feel that something's being done... but I didn't ask for them! It's downright irresponsible of any physician to contribute to the misconception that an antibiotic is a cure-all, especially when an antibiotic is, no matter how you look at it, a poison. It is designed to kill a living organism within your body, and the over-use of antibiotics can leave you vulnerable to antibiotic-resistant strains of infections. Makes me wonder just how much damage this particular doctor has been responsible for with his "can't hurt, can it?" philosophy.

Comments

[arafel.livejournal.com]

You have hit an enormous problem right on the nose. Overuse of antibiotics is directly responsible for the rise of "superbugs" that don't even respond to the tactical nuke of vancomycin (if it doesn't respond to vancomycin... you're in big trouble.) Good for you to stand your ground - the only thing that makes the flu better is rest and treatment of the symptoms.

It is true that the flu can lead to bacterial infections because your immune system is weakened though.. I always get a sinus infection with it. :/

[gurath.livejournal.com]

***This reply comes with a language warning. Few things get me mad enough to use words like these.***

It's basically because of the fucking lawyers. If you get a secondary bacterial infection, the doc is probably worried you'll sue him for not giving you antibiotics preventatively.

Those dumb assholes in the legal system care nothing for the necessities of science and nature, and the need to reduce the use of antibiotics... they have blinders on for anything outside of legal considerations. Even a new and probably toxic chemical is "innocent until proven guilty", and can be dumped unless it is banned.

If a monarchy is run by a monarch, and a democracy by the people, what is the term for a country run by lawyers? We're gonna need that term, in not too many years.

[laura.livejournal.com]

Well....um...the ONLY good thing I can think of...despite you being 150% right about antibiotic overuse, this doctor being a weenie, and antibiotic resistant strains of things...I'd think giving you one would serve two purposes:
First, it'll help prevent a secondary infection while your immune system is already battling a flu. Second, since colds and flus are so...random and difficult to diagnose specifically, it might NOT be viral, so perhaps you'd be nipping something else in the bud. Chances are, I'd guess, most antibiotic resistant strains of the really nasty stuff are already resistant to stuff like Amoxi and commonly used stuff, and it's most important not to overuse the really powerful antibiotics that we've got left, like Cipro, etc.

That is all from Dr. Laura ;-)

[kuangning]

*nod.* I understand that. The thing is, though, I'm perfectly capable of going back to the doctor should I happen to get a bacterial infection, and letting him know that an antibiotic's called for. This particular doctor has seen me several times over the last few months, and every time I've gone to him, I've told him exactly what my symptoms were and what I believed was wrong with me... and in every case, I was correct. He told me nothing I didn't already know, and I'm half convinced that his suggestion of antibiotics was made more to make himself feel better than anything else.

[wiredferret.livejournal.com]

Ug. Silly doctor.

Every time I take antibiotics, they CAUSE secondary infections. Yes, they can do harm.

Good for you, Cairsten.

[kuangning]

Actually, there is one very simple if slightly disgusting way to tell whether an infection is viral or bacterial. A viral infection gives you yellowish mucus/phlegm... if the mucus is *green,* you have a bacterial infection. And I really don't believe that an antibiotic should be given as a preventative... rest, fluids, and treating the symptoms generally provide enough relief that the possibility of a secondary infection is lessened.

Re:

[laura.livejournal.com]

Definitely, ideally, you can prevent the secondary infections with the proper care, and rest, etc...but for most people, if they can't take time off work, or if they have small germ factories (ie children) coming in and out of schools, and aren't able to just take that down time...I dunno, I personally WOULD prefer some prophylactic antibiotics...NOT just for the hell of it on the third Tuesday of every month, but while I'm already sick? Ideally, I wouldn't need antibiotics with proper post-op care when I have this c-section, but I won't blink twice when they run them in before the operation begins, and I take them afterwards.

I do think that people have totally different comfort levels with types of medicine. I'm very, very firmly a Western Medicine girl, believing in 'alternative' forms of medicine mostly for their own placebo affects, and because the mind is SO powerful, that if you BELIEVE doing something that I think is whacko will work, then it just might. But I find I'm a lot more of that mind than most of my friends, and I think I've got friends who are into naturopathy and homeopathy who think I'm a clinically obsessed nut, ya know?

So definitely do what you want...but that might include a different doctor. I just think that some of us aren't *uneducated*, but we might prefer the type of doctor you're uncomfy with.

[kuangning]

*nodnod.* Changing doctors is a little bit drastic, I think... after all, he did listen to my objections. But definitely, it's a personal thing, and what may seem to be simple comon sense to you may seem frivolous to me. :)

[hobbitblue.livejournal.com]

I'm really surprised, there's a huge ad campaign in the UK right now to point out that antibiotics are no good for flu and colds and so the doctor won't be prescribing them... can't remember the last nationwide health campaign other than AIDS so they must be taking the whole antibiotic thing seriously here (saves money, of course....)

[kuangning]

Hallelujah. I truly wish they'd do that here... apparently, the knowledge isn't as common as I had thought.

[laura.livejournal.com]

Here in Canada-land, it's a Not All Bugs Need Drugs! campaign...complete with schoolchildren explaining on TV that most colds and flus are viral, and that the best thing you can do is Wash Your Hands! In fact, Wednesday night, I was at the community health center for a course, and they had a Not All Bugs Need Drugs! sticker over the soap dispenser. As much as I agree with the campaign, season #2 of the same kids in the same commercials is feeling like overkill.

[phenyx.livejournal.com]

heh, have you seen the "The flu and the 'stomach flu' are not the same. The flu is worse." ads?

[galith.livejournal.com]

Every time I take antibiotics, they CAUSE secondary infections. Yes, they can do harm.

You realise that this is basically impossible right? An infection is caused by bacteria living inside your body, and anti-biotics are chemicals that kill bacteria...

[galith.livejournal.com]

You should get said friends to read this (http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/homeo.html), and other stuff at quackwatch. Of course they are problably so deep set in their belifes that they won't even bat an eye, but its still worth a try.

[phlict.livejournal.com]

the fucked up malpractice laws come from pharmaceutical and insurance company lobbyists who make lots of money from doctors prescribing lots of expensive medicines.

a government run by lawyers is called a bureaucracy. a government run by businesses is called a "free market economy."

Girly biology

[wiredferret.livejournal.com]

No, it's not impossible. The antibiotics kill off the beneficial bacteria (lactobacillus, I think) in my vagina, which allows the yeast to overgrow, and therefore I get a yeast infection. I'm on antibiotics a fair bit, due to medical history, and it happens every single damn time. So now when I get an antibiotics scrip, I also make sure I get a Diflucan scrip, which is a one day fungicide. There are viral infections, fungal infections, and bacterial infections.

So the cost for me to take antibiotics is:
$8-$30 for antibiotics, depending
$7 for topical anti-itch cream during treatment, and I'm still miserable
$20-$30 for Diflucan, because it's new

Re: Girly biology

[galith.livejournal.com]

Ah. I stand corrected.

[mayamaia.livejournal.com]

About TIME!

[mayamaia.livejournal.com]

Well, I've got to say most of the comments hit the nail on the head...It's really awful how the antibiotics problem falls out...doctors like this are the worst, but not the only problem. Another one is people who don't finish their rond of antibiotics, or who share antibiotics. If for some strange reason you have leftover antibiotics (you shouldn't but you could...) best thing to do would be to burn them or destroy them in some way. A strain of tubelculosis has actually been found that doesn't respond to ANYTHING we have....just imagine a strain of meningitis like that. Best all around is to get a vaccine for meningitis...that way you're safe from it, period.